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Dave

political compass time

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Average is now included on the graph, I'm not sure how meaningful it is though because for example you move between +1 and +10 economically without much of a viewpoint change.

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It's a political change (i literally switched parties) even if it isn't an ideological change, so I'm fine with it.

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Elpea go gather your own results so that I won't be so alone in the Awesome Quarter (© DF, 2003)

I'm at work I need to put real time/effort into this because as you know it's not a joke! THIS WILL HISTORICALLY SET MY POLITICAL VIEW FOR ANOTHER YEAR!!

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To illustrate how retarded our right wing has become: the EU high court said that a minimum of care ("bed, bath & bread") has to be provided even to refugees who have gone through the full refugeeification process and have been rejected. A local judge then nudged this about a bit and said that it isn't clear that this should happen at state level. Now our coalition (labour + right-'liberals') might explode forever because the right wing party absolutely doesn't want to provide bed bath and bread to these refugees unless they are explicitly forced to by the judge. I mean, what the fuck, how can you be against providing the absolute bare minimum necessary for survival to people you refuse to give an opportunity to help themselves!? WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?

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Also my political view is that of different political policies fix different issues in different cultures. The US benefits from their culture being so aligned with capitalism and working hard for dreams. I don't think it should be enforced on every culture that just wants everyone to enjoy life and not take over the middle-east.

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elpea are you trying to prepare us for the upcoming authoritative left result you're going to post?

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Elpea on the one hand I understand where you're coming from - and on the other that kind of reasoning ends up backfiring in the most horrible ways when people go "well of course people have less rights in Iran, that's how their society is built" and I go "BUT THAT'S A TERRIBLE THING" and they go "IT'S THEIR CULTURE" and I go "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

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Haha yeah, I should've said economic views not political views. I believe smaller governments is always better. I can't think of a single instance where a powerful central government has helped more than smaller ones.

 

Despite the craziness of your right wing DF, I can't imagine why the dutch would give the EU power over its own policies. I probably am really naive about this view though.

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I didn't say a single central policy/project - I said overall, a central government. The US has a relatively smaller central government, as far as I'm aware.

 

You could have kinda used China I guess. But that will depend on your definition of success.

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Despite the craziness of your right wing DF, I can't imagine why the dutch would give the EU power over its own policies. I probably am really naive about this view though.

 

Well, for one, the EU is not an international organisation but a supranational one. We are all already committed to a highest court on the EU level (the European Court of Justice), and its decisions are binding for everyone in the EU. Then on top of that, once the borders are open for commercial and private traffic and EU citizens may live in any EU state of their choosing without having to go through any immigration process, many national laws instantly cease to make sense. A strict immigration policy in one country is useless if their neighbours let everyone in, for example.

 

More generally, the more things are done on EU level, the fewer means there are to tell citizens of different EU nations apart, the more things have to be done on EU level. To me that's not a bad thing, because borders are bullshit imaginary lines preventing people from cooperating across them. It leaves me in the weird position of being an EU federalist who favours a small government, though.

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Elpea:

 

2003-2013:

Was a lazy bastard

 

2014

Economic Left/Right: 5.00

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.59

 

2015

Is a lazy bastard

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I didn't say a single central policy/project - I said overall, a central government. The US has a relatively smaller central government, as far as I'm aware.

 

You could have kinda used China I guess. But that will depend on your definition of success.

 

This, I'm sorry to say, is false. In practice the United States has a less federated system than China. While authority in China nominally rests with the central Communist Party, the local Party leaders have significant weight in their system, tying the central government's hands. The United States, on the other hand, has a very powerful central government compared to its subdivisions - particularly given the size of the nation. I like the idea of federalism as well, but realistically speaking we rank lower than common perception would have you believe.

 

Source: I have multiple degrees in this and took a class that specifically examined state centralization and decentralization.

 

Also the bit about the Dutch giving up authority - why wouldn't the same logic have applied to the 13 Colonies? Was it just the mitigating factor that we had a common language, ethnicity, or colonial heritage? Those factors might make cooperation easier, but it doesn't mean that there aren't significant economic or political interests that (nation)states can have that would require subjugating their autonomy to a centralized system.

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I like the idea of federalism as well, but realistically speaking we rank lower than common perception would have you believe.

Right - I was giving my perception based solely on my experience in Brazil vs US. This highlights the earlier point I made to Dave :).

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Also the bit about the Dutch giving up authority - why wouldn't the same logic have applied to the 13 Colonies? Was it just the mitigating factor that we had a common language, ethnicity, or colonial heritage? Those factors might make cooperation easier, but it doesn't mean that there aren't significant economic or political interests that (nation)states can have that would require subjugating their autonomy to a centralized system.

 

It goes with what I said on the cultural/economic contexts. Policies that make the people of Holland happier don't apply to policies that make people from Germany better. The US was a lot more homogenized, as far as I know =/.

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I'll do Joost a favor and point out that the scale of these areas in which people are assumed to have similar interests is entirely arbitrary and inconsistent from one area to another. Why should the people of Germany want different policies than those in the Netherlands, while those in Munich vs Hamburg do not?

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Well, economic interests are already very intertwined and nobody gives a shit about anything but the economy and immigration.

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Elpea seems to be introducing a basic assumption that culture is the primary variable that alters economic preferences. That may certainly be the case sometimes, but wouldn't it make more sense to view culture as a response or adaptive equilibrium in relation to other variables (that themselves have a direct effect on preferences) and thus at best only be a covariant - and at worst, have no correlation?

 

The 13 colonies were more homogenized in linguistic and ethnic terms (for the ruling elites anyway) than modern europe is today. However, they were also more distant from one another with widely disparate economic interests, resulting in distinct markets and business practices. While I am more skeptical of Joost's critical evaluation of borders, he has a point about Europe. Arguably modern European nations have more intertwined markets than the american colonies did in the 1700s. (Personally, I think the union was driven by security interests rather than economic ones, which does meld better with cultural homogeneity, but that's neither here nor there.) Basically, actors have similar interests unless they have divergent constraints or problems. Most of Europe have greater convergent interests (for now) than they have divergent ones. Ergo, supranational agreements.

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labeled scores (darkest) are the most recent, you can add new scores here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B9jdddW0vV8gUJ8mUNjzuJX2GbYovGoP2Lkg-m8dlWg/edit?usp=sharing

the first one has everyone's and the second is only names with multiple years

 

 

political-compass.svg

political-compass-trim.svg

 

library(tidyverse)
library(ggrepel)

pc_scores <- read_csv("political-compass.csv")

pc_scores <- pc_scores %>%
  group_by(Person) %>%
  mutate(firstyear = ifelse(Year == min(Year), TRUE, FALSE),
         lastyear = ifelse(Year == max(Year), TRUE, FALSE),
         tests = n()) %>%
  arrange(Year) %>%
  ungroup()

pc_shading <- data.frame(xstart = c(-10, 0, -10, 0), xend = c(0, 10, 0, 10),
                         ystart = c(-10, -10, 0, 0), yend = c(0, 0, 10, 10),
                         region_key = c("LL", "RL", "LA", "RA"))

pc_plot_all <- ggplot(data = pc_scores, aes(x = Economic, y = Social, group = Person)) +
  geom_rect(data = pc_shading, aes(xmin = xstart, xmax = xend,
                                   ymin = ystart, ymax = yend, fill = region_key),
            inherit.aes = FALSE, alpha = 0.4) +
  scale_fill_manual(values = c("#9aed97", "#c09aea", "#ff7575", "#42aaff")) +
  geom_segment(aes(x = -10, xend = 10, y = 0, yend = 0)) +
  geom_segment(aes(x = 0, xend = 0, y = -10, yend = 10)) +
  geom_label_repel(data = filter(pc_scores, lastyear == TRUE),
                   aes(label = Person), size = 2, fontface = "bold", ylim = c(-10.1), direction = "x", force = 15) +
  scale_colour_gradient(low = "#f03b20", high = "#000000") +
  geom_path(size = 1) +
  geom_point(size = 2, aes(colour = Year), fill = "#ffffff", shape = 21, stroke = 1.25) +
  xlim(c(-10, 10)) +
  ylim(c(-10, 10)) +
  labs(tag = "Right", subtitle = "Authoritarian") +
  ylab("Left") +
  xlab("Libertarian") +
  theme(axis.text = element_blank(),
        axis.ticks = element_blank(),
        axis.title.y = element_text(size = "12", angle = 0, vjust = 0.5),
        axis.title.x = element_text(size = "12"),
        plot.subtitle = element_text(size = "12", hjust = 0.5),
        panel.background = element_rect(fill = "white"),
        legend.position = "none",
        plot.tag = element_text(size = "12"),
        plot.tag.position = c(1.035, 0.5),
        plot.margin = margin(2, 2, 2, 2, unit = "cm"),
        aspect.ratio = 1)

ggsave("political-compass.svg", scale = 1.2)

pc_plot_multiple <- ggplot(data = filter(pc_scores, tests > 1), aes(x = Economic, y = Social, group = Person)) +
  geom_rect(data = pc_shading, aes(xmin = xstart, xmax = xend,
                                   ymin = ystart, ymax = yend, fill = region_key),
            inherit.aes = FALSE, alpha = 0.4) +
  geom_segment(aes(x = -10, xend = 10, y = 0, yend = 0)) +
  geom_segment(aes(x = 0, xend = 0, y = -10, yend = 10)) +
  geom_label_repel(data = filter(pc_scores, lastyear == TRUE & tests > 1),
                   aes(label = Person), size = 2, fontface = "bold", ylim = c(-10.1), direction = "x", force = 15) +
  scale_fill_manual(values = c("#9aed97", "#c09aea", "#ff7575", "#42aaff")) +
  scale_colour_gradient(low = "#f03b20", high = "#000000") +
  geom_path(size = 1) +
  geom_point(size = 2, aes(colour = Year), fill = "#ffffff", shape = 21, stroke = 1.25) +
  xlim(c(-10, 10)) +
  ylim(c(-10, 10)) +
  labs(tag = "Right", subtitle = "Authoritarian") +
  ylab("Left") +
  xlab("Libertarian") +
  theme(axis.text = element_blank(),
        axis.ticks = element_blank(),
        axis.title.y = element_text(size = "12", angle = 0, vjust = 0.5),
        axis.title.x = element_text(size = "12"),
        plot.subtitle = element_text(size = "12", hjust = 0.5),
        panel.background = element_rect(fill = "white"),
        legend.position = "none",
        plot.tag = element_text(size = "12"),
        plot.tag.position = c(1.035, 0.5),
        plot.margin = margin(2, 2, 2, 2, unit = "cm"),
        aspect.ratio = 1)


ggsave("political-compass-trim.svg", scale = 1.2)

 

Edited by Frog
FIX

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all the threads I could find, if anyone wants to add themselves to the spreadshit

 

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MY CONSISTENT COMPASS POSITION SINCE 2008 IS COMPLAINING ABOUT THE PHRASING OF QUESTIONS

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update with

dave style version

 

political-compass-facet.png

more lines and dots

political-compass-trim.png

 

Edited by Frog
x2
  • Dugong 1

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On 9/13/2020 at 11:40 AM, Shuskee said:

MY CONSISTENT COMPASS POSITION SINCE 2008 IS COMPLAINING ABOUT THE PHRASING OF QUESTIONS

The one about how being able to make decisions is an advantage of authoritarians pisses me off every time.

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